and the voice of the turtle is heard

and the voice of the turtle is heard

I would be curious to see how a more literal modern translation compares. It does not live upon the flesh of animals: so when Noah sent one out of the ark, she soon came back again, because she could find nothing to eat, and no rest for the sole of her foot. Still, can't help wondering, what does the turtle say? While translated as singing, it could also mean 'pruning', as in the Hebrew word mazmera, which makes sense in the context of the buds and the figs and the grapes in nearby verses. Shakespeare (1601), which refers alternatively to "the turtle" and "the dove." "Search the glades and valleys even by sultry Jordan at the end of March, and not a turtle-dove is to be seen. The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; flowers. It feels like the kjv language is older and the msg language is newer. a very loose/free paraphrase into a fairly informal register of modern AmEng) that will maximize contrast with the KJV's approach — but would feel better with some comparisons against other modern versions also purporting to take an "idiomatic" or "dynamic-equivalence" approach (some in a self-consciously informal register; others not) to see if they show the same trend and if so to what degree. The ‘voice of the turtle’ is still heard loud and clear. One useful way to look at the "The case of the disappearing determiners" is to compare bible translations, because this controls to some extent for variation in the underlying message. ], KJV: Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether." When that verb has a vav consecutive affixed to it, it looks like the sentence starts with "and." Luciano Bertazzo. Yes I spent the last few months in Mexico and was very surprised by how similar to Rnglish the Spanish use of articles is. The reptile turtle is from French tortu, from Tartarus, based on a belief that turtles originate in the underworld. The determiner of the turtle is heard in our land, Song of Solomon in the King James Version, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates's_house, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waw-consecutive, Everything You Know About English Is Wrong. Voice of the dove would make more sense. Wiktionary gives two possible etymologies: Possibly from Late Latin tartarūcha, from Late Latin tartarūchus ‎(“of Tartarus”), from Ancient Greek ταρταροῦχος ‎(tartaroûkhos, “from Tartaros, Tartarus, the land of the dead in ancient stories”), because it used to be thought that tortoises and turtles came from the underworld; or from Latin tortus ‎(“twisted”). But it still is true to some extent. Come like a gazelle. If you were looking for a representative/median recent English version of the Bible, msg would not be a plausible candidate. So, maybe we have a mistake on that voice of the turtle part. Without much additional knowledge, I'd vote for the latter, mainly because of the much-used biblical style of repetition with variation : [1a the buds were seen on the earth] [1b the time of the nightingale/dove arrived] On the contrary, doves spend the whole winter here. As for determiners, the KJV takes pains to translate every word in the Hebrew, even where this makes the English wordier than the original – often using two or more words to capture what is one word in Hebrew. Turn to me, dear lover. In terms of meaning the SoS is easy to translate, because the language is concrete and direct, with a great deal of repetition, e.g. and the voice of the turtle dove is heard in our land. Beginning in 1978, the original four members of Voice of the Turtle, Derek Burrows, Lisle Kulbach, Jay Rosenberg and Artistic Director Judith Wachs, focused their creative energies on Judeo-Spanish (Sephardic) music–-the compelling musical repertoire of the Spanish Jews--the Sephardim. But the v' in that position has no conjunctive meaning – it's merely an indicator of "tense" (which I put in quotes because there's a dispute over whether Biblical Hebrew has tenses, or whether it has aspects – a dispute I don't claim to understand.). The difference between "the day" and "dawn" reminds me of one of the differences in article use between English and Spanish (which are generally quite similar article-wise): Spanish tends to use articles for abstract nouns that would be determiner-less in English. Neil — Still, can't help wondering, what does the turtle say? I left them and I found my soul’s love. You're missing the important finding here! Comparisons of books written in prose would be much more meaningful. Spring warblers are filling the forest with sweet arpeggios. Psalm 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance. There seems to be a relevant difference in approach, though, namely a change from metaphor to explicit general language, which might account for a good deal of lost determination. But the second way is substituting "delectable mountains" for "the mountains of Bether", which is a pretty significant semantic change! And the voice of the turtle is heard in our land. So I believe the need to work when read aloud was taken into consideration. Turtle.--Heb., tor (turtur), from its plaintive note. And singing! These questions subsume turtles, tortoises, and terrapins under the single term "turtle" because this is the American practice. I was expecting it to be more like French, and started off using them that way. I don't know anything about Hebrew, but the Greek of the New Testament (and Ancient Greek in general) uses the definite article a lot more than English; for example, our "God" is Greek "ὁ Θεός", literally "the God." Average score for this quiz is 7 / 10. What is the history of Voice of the Turtle? Four by a preceding determiner, two by virtue of being in a definite construct state (N1 the N2 ==> THE N1 of THE N2), and the last one by being in a genitive mess (in-our-land). Posted on March 31, 2014 by sangeek. She repeatedly called the play The Turtle Talks. Given Spanish tortuga, French tortue really can't be from the Tartarus. oslin. 9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice. (A similar misunderstanding arose from the rays of light described Biblically as projecting from Moses' head after he had beheld the Deity. Construction-wise comparison of whole bible versions looks like a plausible way to test hypotheses about what might be going on. Disturbing for some in the making of dawn, less perhaps for others in that insistent groaning that has ignited poetic fantasies. God's Spirit brooded like a bird above the watery abyss. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waw-consecutive, Because in Biblical Hebrew, the common word order is verb-noun or verb with the pronoun indicated by a suffix, it's very common for a sentence to begin with a verb. Mine: Turtle dove: the most rapidly declining bird in Britain, a pell-mell loss of 95 per cent in 20 years. As of Nov 24 20. The bird turtle is onomatopoeic and perhaps frequentative ("tur, tur, tur"). Obviously the turtle had to be wrong, because it's turtles all the way down. The progressive tenses add to this. Hence the name: nothing to do with turtle-turtles. The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; Song of Solomon 2:12 I used to have pet turtles when I was a kid and the closest thing to a vocalization I ever heard was a slight "hiiiisssss" as … The Voice of the Turtle is the seventh album by American guitarist John Fahey.Recorded and released in 1968, it is considered one of his more experimental albums, combining not only folk elements, but shreds of psychedelia, early blues, country fiddles, ragas, and white noise. Comparing versions representing a committee/consensus approach to those which (like msg) were basically one-man productions and thus may reflect the stylistic particularities of a single idiolect might also be illuminating, esp since we presumably don't know how Peterson's rate of determiner use in general compares to the median AmEng speaker of his generation;if he is an outlier rather than median specimen when it comes to that there is no reason to think he would have changed that idiosyncrasy when it came to his Bible version. From the previous posts on this topic, I expect the informality results in a lower determiner count. Strunk and White creepeth on. Vav used this way is called the vav hahipuch (the reversal vav) or the vav consecutive. But Eddie and I both heard him distinctly. This Painted Turtle was sunning himself in the narrows. I will rise now, and go about the city in the streets, and in the broad ways I will seek him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not. Surely there are Greek and/or Hebrew works that were translated into English both from a Latin version (probably earlier) and from the original. 11 For loe, the winter is past, the raine is ouer, and gone. YLT SongOfSongs 2:12. We consider life rather than death, health rather than sickness. The wards who walk the city found me. Feb21. Well, I suppose they had harps. http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/1504/why-does-the-king-james-have-turtle-in-song-of-solomon-212. The Voice of the Turtle is a comedic Broadway play by John William Van Druten dealing with the challenges of the single life in New York City during World War II.Controversial in its time, The Voice of the Turtle explores the sexual struggles of Sally Middleton, a young woman attempting to reconcile her childhood teachings on the importance of chastity with her newfound affection for Bill Page. msg 2:17: Until dawn breathes its light and night slips away. msg 1:2 Earth was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. As in this case, a lot of the extra articles go untranslated, but I still wouldn't be surprised if the English of more literal Bible translations had an overall higher the-count overall. I t started with a photo of the mean giant s napping turtle who comes every year across the road from the lakeside to lay her eggs in our front yard. The voice of the turtle is heard in the land. It was but a little that I passed from them, but I found him whom my soul loveth: I held him, and would not let him go, until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the chamber of her that conceived me. Now, to make this comment slightly more relevant to the original post (*blush*), let me add that in this SoS phrase, all nouns are definite. It's perfectly reasonable for a modern translation to leave it out. – turtle, tortoise : la tortue The first is substituting "dawn" for "the day" and "night" for "the shadows", which according to my personal intuition probably accords pretty well with what's going on in the decline of "the" over time (or part of it, anyway). The KJV was produced by committee knowing it was intended to be used during church services as well as private reading. The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; Song of Solomon 6:2,11 My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies…, Isaiah 35:1,2 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose…, Hosea 14:5-7 I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon…, Psalm 40:1-3 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. [(myl) I'm sure that using different versions — old or new — would yield different results. When "the voice of the turtle is heard in our land." Referring to KeithB's point about rendering determiners from the source language: this is something that can be tested. from SOAR NIGHT … I’m awake the Southern Cross is directly overhead – it’s 2.07 am the Southern ocean rumbles groans rolls on for the Prince of Peace will one day reign on earth & the sea & the stars they know can’t wait but do wait The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land This is even evident from your quotes. 10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. They only use it when mating but they do have a voice and it is one of the earliest sounds we hear in the spring so the passage doesn't need to be made into a bird cooing. cafe. … It's a paraphrase of a passage in the King James Bible, Song of Solomon 2:10-13. Long did I puzzle over the poetic meaning of the silent turtle's voice heralding Spring! PS – the two turtles have different etymologies. How it all starts: kjv 1:1 In the beginning God created  the heaven and the earth. The Message is infamous (among Christians) for not really being a translation at all–not only does it gratuitously rephrase everything in informal contemporary language, the author took it upon himself to rewrite some of the more difficult or controversial bits to make them easier for modern audiences to digest. Song of Solomon 2:12 Context. ["On the" is one syllable, and there is only one "the" in the turtle voice and the singing time. As far as I know the Jerusalem Bible, which is used for the readings in the Catholic church in the UK, was produced with the same intent and also by committee. "Turtle" is 17th c English for turtle dove. The Voice of the Turtle Is Heard in the Land Four years ago on May 23, 20 13, I published the blog post below, which is basically a love song to my New E ngland village of Grafton. The Turtle dove is Moshe Rabbeinu who comes with Messiah ben David, the … of the Bible, p. 219). DTIC ADA510137: The Voice of the Turtle is Heard Programs to Develop Military Writers in the Field of Strategy by Defense Technical Information Center. It's a part of our heritage from renaissance England, not from ancient Israel. The Song of Solomon which verse is being translated by different methodologies is not a very fair place to make a comparison of determiners. Also The Voice of the Turtle was a long-running play, starting during WWII , IIRC Personal note---my aunt went to a performance of the play here in OK in the late 40s, when I was in grade school. See, e.g., The Phoenix and the Turtle, by one Wm. May he kiss me with his mouth's kisses, for better your love than wine. This example really struck me as losing "the" in two different ways. I rose and walked the city streets to seek my soul’s love, I sought and did not find him. I'm guessing it's something other than "Ring-ding-ding-ding-ding-a-ring-a-ding". Mine: Until wafts the day, and flee the shadows, turn, liken-you my love to [a] deer or to [a] gazelle's fawn on Betar Mountains [cleft mountains?]. .יִשָּׁקֵנִי מִנְּשִׁיקוֹת פִּיהוּ, כִּי-טוֹבִים דֹּדֶיךָ מִיָּיִן kjv 2:17: Until the day break , and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether. As the African bush reverberates to the call of the Cape Turtle Dove, as the Rose of Sharon delighted in the voice of the turtle dove, as Andrew David Irwin Neaum rejoiced in the heart-soothing music of the St. Helenian ground dove, so our world, our lives, our hearts reverberate with, and delight and rejoice in, the Holy Spirit of God, if we sit still, listen, and so become aware of him. Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine. January 7, 2016 @ 7:30 pm. Student uses lockdown to build backyard roller coaster 'The Voice of the Turtle," the romantic comedy by John Van Druten that is the final production of Princeton Summer Theater, opened on Broadway in 1943, when the country was in the throes of World War II (and almost every able-bodied young man was in uniform). Played 78 times. It is a very cold-tolerant turtle. And arpeggios! The famous "voice of the turtle" heard in the land, was meant to be the song of the turtledove not the reptile. And notice how the modern version does away with starting sentences with 'And'. I agree. The Tigers play the Baltimore Orioles at 1 p.m. in Lakeland, Fla. "I would image the Song of Solomon to be notoriously hard to translate because it's poetry". But the second way is substituting "delectable mountains" for "the mountains of Bether", which is a pretty significant semantic change! This didn't prevent Michelangelo from painting Moses with horns! Difficulty: Average. Understand the meaning of Song of Solomon 2:12 using all available Bible versions and commentary. In fact, this stems from the Hebrew word for such rays, "Karnayim" ( קרניים) which also refer in modern Hebrew to the horns of a dairy animal. msg 2:17: Until dawn breathes its light and night slips away. Filed by Mark Liberman under Linguistic history. Re KeithB's point, looser approaches such as those of msg (so loose as to be called paraphrases rather than proper translations by their critics) tend not to worry overmuch about the presence or absence of particular lexical items or syntactic constructions in the original. Psalm 148:7-13 Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps: …, Romans 15:9-13 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name…, Ephesians 1:13,14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, …. The OED says that tortue and tortuga are from Latin tortuca, "of uncertain origin.". What we're really seeing is an increase in exclamation points! We’re losing turtle doves for a complex suite of reasons; the most obvious of them is that they get shot on migration. Publication date 1966-04-08 Topics The overall statistics for the Song of Solomon in the two sources show a fall of about 38% relative: And here are a couple of specific verses to compare: kjv 2:12: The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; עַד שֶׁיָּפוּחַ הַיּוֹם, וְנָסוּ הַצְּלָלִים: סֹב דְּמֵה-לְךָ דוֹדִי לִצְבִי, אוֹ לְעֹפֶר הָאַיָּלִים–עַל-הָרֵי בָתֶר. The Voice of the Turtle. 10 My beloued spake, and said vnto me, Rise vp, my Loue, my faire one, and come away. A modern Hebrew speaker feels the v' sounds as a archaic but not as a conjunction. The point is just that systematic comparisons of individual phrases in such pairs (or n-tuples) offers a way to get a useful inventory of alternative constructions differing in determiner usage.]. Clue Grammy-winner K.T. By now, you likely have heard about the great turtle invasion at JFK Airport, but if you are in the dark, let me enlighten you. fr. 1b – 2a: birds (tor, zamir), each in a construct state. I would image the Song of Solomon to be notoriously hard to translate because it's poetry (and some say allegory) in a largely dead language (Biblical Hebrew, not Hebrew in general), so I wouldn't use that for comparing definite articles or any other linguistic feature. The whole world's a choir – and singing! Jul 6, 2012 - Summer stuttered at first but finally flared into life. Especially in the spring time that awakens life and nature. I held him hard and brought him to my mother's house, into the room where she conceived me. I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry…. This is perfectly reasonable, especially because they have no letter case to distinguish "god" from "God". This is loving but almost decorous; the original is insane with passion. The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; There is no ambiguity in the KJV. My literal translation: Given the various objections raised in the comments to using bible translations for this purpose, it might be useful to take samples from other sources as well, like translations of Don Quixote (first translated in 1612) and translations of the speeches of Cicero. A bundle of myrrh is my beloved unto me; He shall lie all … The voice of the turtle-dove is heard in our land. (Turtle doves also migrate from Africa to Palestine.). All there is is a modern misreading of the KJV. It is migratory, and its advent marks the return of spring (Jeremiah 8:7). NLT The flowers are springing up, the season of singing birds has come, and the cooing of turtledoves fills the air. Anyway, we’ve seen lots of turtles this year on Long Lake. The Voice Of The Turtle A compilation of words and phrases From The Song of Solomon: All credits belong to the King. Giving the msg translation as much benefit of the doubt as I can, this seems like rendering "you too could have a house like Bill Gates'" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates's_house ) as "you too could live in an opulent mansion", which benefits people who can't appreciate cultural references but is also forced to replace a very definite reference with a vague, indefinite one. There seems to be some disagreement whether the original animal called a "turtle" in the King James bible was a dove or some "creeping thing" in the original , though those favoring the latter seems to be a minority. What you don't get in this translation is the hammering of the syllables that repeat like the pounding of a heart. Come like a gazelle. All of these are included in the Mission of the first Messiah. Yishakeni minshikot pihu ki-tovim dodeikha miyayin: "And" at the beginning of senetences in the KJV is usually a mistranslation. in ch. ... and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land.” – Song of Solomon 2:11-12. Here's the first sentence of SoS in the KJV version: Leap like a wild stag on delectable mountains! Most translations seem to drop 'Bether'; although no one can agree on what the word means, it looks as if it is agreed that it is a word, not a name. whose ode "80's Ladies" claims "We burned our bras / And we burned our dinners / And we burned our candles at both ends" haha sounds like us. How much do you know about turtles of all sorts? This is closer to the craziness of the original: In bed all night I sought my soul’s love; I sought and did not find him. ~~~~~ Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth For thy love is better than wine. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Earth was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. In fact generally I was surprised by the extent to which English and Spanish sentences could be more or less directly translated into each other. For some reason, our chemistry and our psyche combine to help us think about future opportunities rather than past failures. Turn to me, dear lover. This is less true in the SoS than elsewhere, perhaps because the poetry is so very direct that even the KJV translators couldn't fail to be stirred. That's not a "sign of spring" but hearing the voice of the turtle is. Ernie Harwell read this every Spring Training. The Voice of the Trutle Dove is the sound that precedes the turtle dove. But I doubt that references to current cultural phenomena are declining so steeply over time — this substitution occurred because the original message is several thousand years old, and located many thousands of miles away, and the idea it refers to is no longer familiar to the audience. Needless to say, there's a fair amount of chapter-to-chapter variation, which is weakly correlated (r=0.58) across versions: For another specific examples, consider the first chapter of Genesis, where the kjv has 13.6% THE (108 out of 797), and msg has 5.1% THE (29 out of 568). Leap like a wild stag on delectable mountains! I can't find any sources about what the author's religion is (except that it must be some sort of Christianity), but I know of no religious or secular studies that support this translation. The beauty of this verse, in my opinion, stems also from the multi-relevant perfect ambiguity of the word zamir. While many pick on the poor turtle, nobody seems to pay much attention to the unwarranted (human) singing. This sometimes means inserting an article where the Hebrew has none due to its use of prefixes and suffixes to indicate possession and other relationships. – turtle(dove) : la tourterelle (probably from *tourtour-elle). However, that's not the animal whose voice is heard in our land, which is tor, the onomatopoeic word for the turtledove. The famous "voice of the turtle" heard in the land, was meant to be the song of the turtledove not the reptile. (A similar misunderstanding arose from the rays of light described Biblically as projecting from Moses' head after he had beheld the Deity. I think that's why I remember--I found that phrase very funny. .הַנִּצָּנִים נִרְאוּ בָאָרֶץ, עֵת הַזָּמִיר הִגִּיעַ; וְקוֹל הַתּוֹר, נִשְׁמַע בְּאַרְצֵנוּ Picayune perhaps but nonetheless a typical example of how mistranslations arise from what amount to old English to modern. 2011 will be the first Spring Training without Ernie. Verb - Nifal - Perfect - third person common plural, Preposition-b, Article | Noun - feminine singular, Verb - Hifil - Perfect - third person masculine singular, To touch, lay the hand upon, to reach, violently, to strike, Conjunctive waw | Noun - masculine singular construct, Verb - Nifal - Perfect - third person masculine singular, Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular construct | first person common plural, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, OT Poetry: Song of Solomon 2:12 The flowers appear on the earth (Song Songs SS So Can) Christian Bible Study Resources, Dictionary, Concordance and Search Tools. "The Voice of the Turtle is Heard in Our Land" The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund—What They Do The World Bank is the largest lender in the world to poor countries, supported in part by almost a billion dollars a year of U.S. tax dollars. @KeithB: That seems like an argument that the Message Bible might be a good choice for comparison, since it appears to make little to no effort to maintain anything of the untranslated language—opting instead for very broad paraphrases. The flowers have appeared in the earth, The time of the singing hath come, And the voice of the turtle was heard in our land, read chapter 2 in YLT So the KJV has more definite articles the the original. Return in the second week of April, and clouds of doves are feeding on the clovers of the plain." The Observer Staff. And the original, which has no definite article before kisses: "Tortue" from "Tartarus" looks like folk etymology. kjv 2:17: Until the day break , and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether. The watchmen that go about the city found me: to whom I said, Saw ye him whom my soul loveth? The voice of the Songbird is heard, that is, the designated people, the special messengers. 6 July 2011. The quoted verses in the OP in the KJV: Translations of the Bible are an unusual case anyway, since the translator(s) are rarely working directly from the Hebrew/Aramaic originals, but are also getting input from earlier Greek, Latin, and English translations. Opinion. The voice of the turtle is heard in the land. I'm not sure what effect the level of literalness would have. "The turtle, immediately on its arrival, pours forth from every garden grove and wooded hill its melancholy yet soothing ditty from early dawn till sunset" (Tristram's Nat. Long did I puzzle over the poetic meaning of the silent turtle's voice heralding Spring! In the spring, it seems anything is possible. And so might be a better comparison. Turr, they say. Armande Cohen said, The voice of the turtle-dove has been heard in our land. The buds are seen on the earth, the singing time arrives; and is heard the turtle voice in our land. (Although Peterson has published a bunch of other books, so in principle it ought to be possible to evaluate them against other books in similar genres written around the same time by other AmEng speakers of his approx year of birth to see how they compare in rate-of-the-usage.). The Turtle-Dove This is a very beautiful and innocent bird, and no one is mentioned more frequently in the Bible. The second translation differs greatly in meaning, not just in language. I can certainly see a plausible non-cherry-picking argument for using it — namely, that it is precisely the fringe/outlier nature of its methodological/stylistic approach (i.e. 3, where the verses reflect the maiden's intense obsession: KJV: By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not. So as a first tentative step on that path, I compared the  Song of Solomon in the King James Version, first published in 1611, with the Song of Solomon in the Message Bible, published between 1993 and 2002. They coo all the time. In Biblical Hebrew, v' has a second and curious function – it flips the a verb from past to future and vice versa. Turr. I think it happened that last week in June, when that real 'school’s-out' feeling filled the air. Sources: College head coach quits after opening game. God's Spirit brooded like a bird above the watery abyss. 'Tell me, did you see my soul’s love?' Since Greek and Hebrew use determiners copiously while Latin has none, a comparison of the translations could be made. I'm not saying msg is a *bad* comparator — I'm just saying there are reasons to suppose that using different modern versions as comparators might yield materially different results and that should be kept in mind when using such comparisons as a way of trying to understand the broad lower-use-of-the trend that seems to be out there. Three species are found in Palestine, but the one intended is doubtless our own turtle-dove (Turtur auritus). Isn't a translation a poor choice for this exercise since it reflects the translator's choice in rendering determiners from the source language? Who hasn't heard the cooing of a turtledove? "The flowers appear on the earth; The time of the singing [of birds] is come, And the voice of the turtle-dove is heard in our land;."

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